The Greatest Food Writer That Ever Lived?

Photo credit: Tuan Bui

Have you ever wondered what cornbread made with kitty litter tastes like? No? Well, my next newsletter guest, Dennis Lee knows. He’s also turned Red Lobster’s Cheddar Bay Biscuit mix into bread, researched the edible nature of toilet paper (pandemic PSA), and vaped blue cheese, which is to say, Lee is my kind of food writer. While his writing for the Substack newsletter Food is Stupid, and prior to that his blog, The Pizzle, is rich in “butt-stuff” and outsized declarations of his prowess, Lee’s writing is smart, nuanced, and most of all, entertaining. Lee, also a pizzaioli at Paulie Gee’s Logan Square, gives the proverbial middle finger to fake money-grubbing influencers and the traditional “I’m so enraptured by the beauty of X”, 1977 Ladies Home Journal aesthetic that continues to drive traditional food writing.

Enjoy the greatness:

How are you doing during this pandemic?

It’s a mix of tense and bored and worried. Every day is kind of boring. Unemployment insurance ends in July and that’s not too far off. I’m worried about my co-workers. In the best of times our job is tenuous to begin with and these people are going to be in a lot of trouble. People do live day to day in this industry.

We’ve known each other a long time. You wrote for my website Hungry magazine back in 2005. Technically, maybe I’m responsible for what you’ve become?

You were! 100 percent.

I also need to apologize to you. I went back and read some our old emails from 2005 to research for this interview and even though I thought Hungry magazine was this fresh new voice, I did what editors do and tried to box you in. I’m quoting here, I wrote “Using some of your recipes would be cool.  … We probably want to tone down the swearing a bit, not that I care, fuck no, I don't, but I want the zine to be accessible to those who may have different sensibilities.”

So, listen, I’m sorry I tried to box you in.

Ha. Thanks.I’ve always felt that if people can’t deal with me being vulgar, then I’m probably not for them.

That being said, the way you write today is still significantly different. I really think it’s interesting how your voice has changed and how you’ve found such a unique pitch. How did you find your voice?

I think probably the voice was always there. I really loved food and writing about it and didn’t know how to break into it. Everyone was writing all these frilly things about symphony and texture. Everyone was doing the same thing. I thought at some point, I’m just gonna go nuts. I might as well just have fun with it. Editors are always trying to shape your voice, but once you stop thinking about those people you can be yourself.

Ok, so that was the serious version of the question. The funnier version is: when did you get obsessed with referring to anuses?

I think it was around 2014. I was seeing all these influencers, and I asked what’s MY motivation? I was tired of everyone trying to be part of the cool crew. It felt kind of gross. So, I said, fuck everybody. I’m just gonna drive my car off the cliff and do one last hurrah. I figured if I talk bout balls, it’s gonna filter out the people I’m tired of

And then the awards started rolling in!  You like to joke that you’re a James Beard Award-worthy greatest food writer, but you’ve actually won stuff.

Yeah, Saveur magazine named me best humor blog. It was exactly the opposite of what I thought would happen. But, it also kept me writing, and of course I do more “legitimate” work now for Chicago Magazine and Kitchen Toke.

I guess that’s the advice to young writers, right? Write what you want to write and the success will come?

Well, it’s kind of a hard path. You have to be stubborn about it. They don’t want you to write like I do. But, then no one was interested until I got apeshit.

You’ve got these stuffed animal mascots that pop up on your website all the time, Harvey and Mr. Bee. Any good stories about them?

They’re really old stuffed animals that I stole from my sister. They fit in my pocket. They’re really portable. I took them to Baconfest. I thought, they’ll make a good mascot and I’m just gonna put them in stuff. It’ll be fun.

We’re doing this interview on 420 day. You write for Kitchen Toke, the cannabis culinary magazine. How’s that experience?

The funny thing is I don’t smoke weed. It just makes me feel bad. I used to in college and I liked it a lot, but then it stopped feeling good. But, I’m fascinated with the culture. I love how passionate the industry is. It’s fascinating seeing people in the culinary and cannabis world, the way their eyes light up and how passionate they are. I love the culture.

You’ve cooked and eaten and done a lot of weird stuff for your website. What’s the weirdest?

I made cornbread out of kitty litter. It was a corn-based kitty litter. I snuck my own meat in to a Korean BBQ restaurant. I’m not proud of that now. It probably wasn’t the best idea, but we did order some other stuff, but we also supplemented with the meat I bought.

I mean it is tough to grill in these small spaces in Chicago!

Yeah! Also, I made a Chicago-style hot dog terrine once.

OK, what’s the grossest thing you’ve eaten that you’ve made?

Play Doh empanadas. When something is listed as non-toxic, I take that to mean I can eat it. Play Doh is mostly made out of flour so it seemed like a good idea. The flavor was sooo bad, it was like baked Play Doh and it had borax and this harsh chemical finish.

What’s the most delicious thing you’ve cooked and eaten for the newsletter?

The kitty litter cornbread.

You also work at Paulie Gee’s. The owner Derrick Tung told me you’re like a mini-celebrity and people come in just to see you. You have this food writing career. Where do you want to take this thing?

I do work in a kitchen where I get my butt handed to me daily and I write. Some people write. Some people cook. But, I don’t see a lot of people on both sides. I think this gives me a unique perspective. There are some chefs who retire to write.  I don’t know where anything’s going. My dream has always been to be a full-time food writer. My Substack is doing very well, but I like the restaurant. We’ll see.

Is it hard to write for other people now?

I don’t feel constrained. I do write serious things. I’m in the best spot. The “legitimate” publications already know I’m batshit crazy and they’ll still let me write.

How old are you now?  I think I’m a little older than you, but I can’t imagine working the line at a pizza spot at this point in my life.

I’m 39. I wouldn’t say I’m old, but my co-workers are all at least 10 years younger, and sometimes it’s tough. I love the pizza making. It’s really important to know what it’s like to be a line cook, and what it takes to really make food.  You really appreciate the people who have to replicate and do these tasks over and over again in a small kitchen with high heat. The people cooking your food are awesome.

You like to Instagram and Tweet photos of dropped pizzas. What’s that about?

Well, we don’t drop pizza as much as you think.  But, the first time I did it, I thought it was so funny, because I think failure is funny. I think it’s hilarious when people mess up.

Right, we shouldn’t take ourselves so seriously. Speaking of serious, before all of this, you worked in IT, right? 

I worked in infrastructure technologies for ten years, doing the physical installations for internet hosting and services. I was in between jobs, and I needed a job and I knew Derrick needed help, so I helped him, and now it’s been four years.

We met back in 2005, I remember it was some weird club on Chicago avenue one night. You were kind of preppy back then. Now you’re kinda hipster.  It’s been fun to see you evolve into the person you want to be. Tell me about that.

My hair is past my neck and I look like I fell out of a dumpster. The whole preppy thing happened because I grew up in Lake Forest aspiring to be normal and just dress the way people expect. At some point I just needed to stop caring what anybody thought. I thought, just relax, don’t stress about the people around you. That’s a hard thing. It’s scary to a lot of people. There are common sense things you should do, like be healthy, but other than that, you should do what makes you happy. My mental state is much better when I don’t give a shit. But, it’s also hard. You have to fight against the old urges.

I don’t want this to sound like I’m making an assumption, but is some of this that you grew up in an Asian family, and there’s often a certain set of stringent expectations in the culture?

Exactly. My parents don’t read much of my writing. They don’t know about my Substack. I tell them I write for magazines in Chicago. That’s pretty much what they know.

They should be proud! All kidding aside, what you do, even though it’s rooted in potty humor, is actually very high concept. This stuff takes a lot of thought to pull off well.

The food is the hook. I spend a lot of time thinking about it. It has to be funny. If I’m not laughing about the idea out loud, I’m not gonna do it. A lot of people give me ideas, but they’re usually terrible, like why don’t you eat bugs? I’m always like, is there more to that? No. Ok. I recently did that Cadbury Egg salad and there were a lot of layers to it. Coming up with the ideas sometimes though is damn tough. Sometimes it just hits me.

Your fiancée Davida has been contributing to the newsletter as well. She’s pretty funny too.

We have a very similar sense of humor.

Do you use her as a sounding board?

If she doesn’t like it, I’m still gonna do it. But, if it’s not funny to her, I’ll second guess the idea. We actually met through my blog.

Oh, wow, I did not know that.

I have met a lot of people through the writing. I was laid off and my car got destroyed on St. Patrick’s day. She decided to send me twenty bucks and then wrote me to make sure I got the money. We were kind of pen pals, and eventually I was like I’m going to hate myself if I don’t meet you in person. 

And now you’re engaged. Any other amazing things that have happened to you on this food writing journey?

Well, I was on the Carbface podcast. It was produced by Anthony Bourdain. I mean he didn’t have a lot to do with it. It’s really the show of his longtime partner Laurie [Woolever] and Chris [Thornton], her right-hand lieutenant. But, it’s crazy to think maybe I used the same microphone as Tony or like we were linked in some way, even if it was many degrees apart. I try not to think about it too much. I’m overwhelmed with how many amazing things have happened.

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